the war on drugs. What I find really troubling since my return to the land of the free is the inclusion of the Iraq war as part of the war on terror. Huh? I just don't get it. Either our intelligence on Iraq was WAY off, or the executive branch lied about the existence of WMD's in Iraq. I find both possibilities pretty appalling. In any case, UN inspectors had been very effectively containing Iraq for a decade. The Afgan war had considerable justification (and very considerable support from just about the entire world). The Iraq war had the following top reasons. 1. Iraq has WMD's (Oops...) 2. Saddam gassed his own people (with our gas) and is really bad. (Oh Please) 3. Saddam is a threat to peace in the middle east. (See Israel for a really good example) 4. Daddy don't like him. 5. Dick don't like him. 6 There is oil there. 7. Iraq harbors terrorists. (It turns out this was true, but only in the north which was under the protection of the USAF and not Saddam for the last 10 years. 8. The economy needs a boost. 9. Keeping the country in a constant state of war will be good for the presidents approval ratings. 10. Promotion of Liberal Government. (This would have been a laudable reason but without the threat of WMD's, Congress and the American people would never have supported the war).">
December 04, 2003
George Bush, The Iraq War, and All That

Since Bush the Usurper (I refuse to call the man president since he didn't actually win the election) started the Iraq war on my birthday I've been pretty glum about the sorry state of our foreign dealings (I refuse to call it a policy because I can detect no policy). We seem determined now to maintain a permanent state of war. The trouble is... this war is no more winnable then the last war... the war on drugs.

The war on drugs and the war on terror have little in common at face value - apart from their tendency to wage war on individual liberty and freedom - and the obvious fact that they cannot be won. The rest of this article is dedicated to the Iraq war and its reasons.

On 3 Dec 2003, at 12:52, xxxx@xxxorg wrote:

Hey Thomas,
I did read your post and quite a few of the comments to it. Internet Blog discourse no longer interests me since I don't consider "Fuck you", "You're gay", "you're just a racist, homophobe, blah blah blah" to be worthy of my increasingly scarce time. I used to read the replies to slashdot.org posts too, but they have similarly gone down the crapper.

Of all the online essays and articles that I've read about the war, the author I've enjoyed the most is the military historian Victor Davis Hanson. His archive is at the National Review site.

Since he has been a proponent of the action in Iraq (and elsewhere), you will likely disagree with his conclusions. That's ok, reasonable people can disagree. Brother C and I enjoyed his book, "An Autumn of War", which is a collection of essays written after 9-11.
Talk to you later,
-N


From: Thomas Stubbs
Subject: Re: Have you read the comments on my post?
Date: 3 December 2003 14:31:03 GMT-05:00
To: N

Hi Man,

Indeed... but the thing is... amongst the noise... were some lucid, well written arguments. I am usually amazed at the general intelligence of people who comment on my site.

I've been reading some of the essays on Hanson's site. His thinking is awfully black and white for me... and muddled, and just misinformed.

We all know that privately, but we must now publicly accept the challenge of our day — if we wish to ensure that there are no more craters and incinerated flesh in New York. The president had it right all along that there is a big choice for everyone involved — and those in the Middle East will have to decide whether they are for or against the United States in its efforts to kill the Islamic fascists who have butchered thousands of our own and who want to destroy America and offer a new Dark Age in its place. All the peace marches, New York Times editorials, or near-slander from Democratic presidential contenders cannot change that reality, and so the decision really is either to cease and desist or to wage war and finish the conflict. Anything in between is madness.

This was written on 7 November this year, two months after President Bush admitted that Iraq was not involved in terrorist attacks on the US, after is has become all too clear that Iraq possessed no weapons that could conceivably threaten the US. (The last chemical weapons use by Iraq was in the 80's against the Kurds and Iran... and the US supplied those weapons... its really no wonder we are so popular in Iran). The Iraq war will serve no useful purpose except to make it easier for fanatical terrorist organizations to recruit. There is no evidence that it will prevent attacks in New York!

What I find really troubling since my return to the land of the free is the inclusion of the Iraq war as part of the war on terror. Huh? I just don't get it. Either our intelligence on Iraq was WAY off, or the executive branch lied about the existence of WMD's in Iraq. I find both possibilities pretty appalling. In any case, UN inspectors had been very effectively containing Iraq for a decade. The Afgan war had considerable justification (and very considerable support from just about the entire world). The Iraq war had the following top reasons.

1. Iraq has WMD's (Oops...)
2. Saddam gassed his own people (with our gas) and is really bad. (Oh Please)
3. Saddam is a threat to peace in the middle east. (See Israel for a really good example)
4. Daddy don't like him.
5. Dick don't like him.
6 There is oil there.
7. Iraq harbors terrorists. (It turns out this was true, but only in the north which was under the protection of the USAF and not Saddam for the last 10 years.
8. The economy needs a boost.
9. Keeping the country in a constant state of war will be good for the presidents approval ratings.
10. Promotion of Liberal Government. (This would have been a laudable reason but without the threat of WMD's, Congress and the American people would never have supported the war).

So what are his conclusions? That we invade Iran, North Korea, the Saudi's, Israel, Cuba? He lumps Iraq and Afghanistan in several of his articles... they are just not the same.

Reasonable people can disagree - naturally. I look forward to debating you on the Iraq War... (you can stand in for Hanson).

I likes this post from the discourse (though I don't agree with the nice things he said about Clinton!)


Listen up, yrubeetred: Bill Clinton had Kenneth Starr parked up his ass during the second half of his presidency- a shameless with-hunt that cost the taxpayers over a billion dollars, he was assigned to investigate White Water, found that the Clintons had done nothing wrong, and then instead of quitting he continued his investigation for another 9 months, for what? He had run past his mandate, but he just dug and dug and dug and the only dirt he could get on Clinton was some extramarital affair. How pathetically silly, how puny, how petty, what a waste of time, effort, and money! And what did the Republican congress do right after that? They changed the Special Prosecutor law to prevent that kind of abuse of the assets of the US justice department ever again, much to my chagrin, because if ever there was a need for a special prosecutor, this administration tops it:
- Enron. Bush and Chenney were directly involved.
- Lies to the people and Congress of the us during the State of the Union address! How egregious! How much more cynical and dastardly than sticking a cigar in some intern's twat! For the sake of the US, develop some realistic perspective!
- Transfering the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor and middle-income: simpley inexcusible, utterly self-serving, devious, dishonest, and hardly forthright.
- AWOL for 9 months from his cushy Air National Guard billet while volunteering in one of his Dad's friend's political campaign. Never mind that he dodged going to Vietnam altogether, unlike Al Gore or John Kerry.

Bill Clinton balanced the Federal Budget!!! Bill Clinton reformed Welfare (not to my satisfaction, but something did need to be done). Bill Clinton had excellent relationships with all of our traditional allies, prompted free trade (NAFTA), had everyone employed and the stock market booming. He did all of this with Starr patrked up his ass and a Republican House- simply amazing.

He was definitely one of the greatest Presidents we have ever had, anyone who denies that is living in, well, denial. The facts simply speak for themselves.

Futhermore- *real* American patriots do the following:

-Question authority and power- always vigilant for the encroachment of tyranny.

-Want a free and liberal press to aid in number 1, above.

-Stick up for the little man over the corporation, see Teddy Roosevelt for an example of a real patriot. Bush absolutely sucks in this regard.

-Want to share *peace* and prosperity with everyone. Real patriots are very slow to resort to shooting and wars, and distrust a large standing military.

-Want fical conservatism and social progressivism: Teddy Roosevelt, Mark Twain, Albert Einstein, Bill Clinton, JFK, Truman, FDR, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, that's the short list but there are more- the greatest Americans have almost all followed this formula. Bush follows the EXACT OPPOSITE. He says he's conservative, but wants to cut down all of our hard timber reserves, drill up the last of our oil reserves, and has ammassed the larget budget deficit ever in the shortest amount of time. So he is not a fiscal conservative. His rampant stomping of US citizen's right to protest, of the US Congress right to review executive programs, and most of his blatant repeated lying all point to someone who wishes to utterly control public opinion in the US, much like Hitler and Lennin did in their respective counties.

In short, Bush is no patriot, he is a traitor, but not to some foreign governemnt, no he is a traitor in a class war that is brewing here in the US. Please WAKE UP and end the jingoistic sloganeering. I know 9-11 sucked, I had a family member die in the WTC collapse and live in Northern Virginia- I saw the burned out Pentagon over and over again, in person. But do not loose sight of the real purpose and strength of America, do not let your anguish cloud your vision of how corrupt this administration is. Politicians are merely wind vanes, we must be the wind, and it is a serious responsibility, so please WAKE UP and start reading the news from multiple sources- from the right, the left, foreign papers, all of it.
Posted by Stuart Jefferson Holme at November 28, 2003 01:35 PM

- Thomas

Posted by tstubbs at December 04, 2003 01:57 PM
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